robinn 1y ago • 100%
replied to the wrong person for the source ask mb
robinn 1y ago • 100%
Exactly what happened here
User 1: It’s almost as if Chinese Imperialism, genocide and ethnic cleansing is still bad even if the West built its powerbase on Imperialism.
User 2: How many colonies does China have? How many countries has it invaded? How many wars has waged?
Fascists like you and followers of the capitalist death cult can only say this: Tibet, because they drove the feudal lords and dalai lama paedophiles; Taiwan, because the bourgeois dictatorship claimed that land as theirs, as if it isn’t historically all one China, a similar story with Malvinas, I guess you also think they belong to the British; Hong Kong, which was a British colony but for some twisted reason you think they should be it’s own thing, because again it historically has not belong to China; the Uyghur thing, which even Western sources deny and/or doubt of its veracity and which was propelled by a right-wing organisation pro US imperialism; and delirious ideas about China being “imperialist” in Africa or South America because it trades with them and builds infrastructure, instead of providing bogus “financial aids” which then end up in the hands of US puppets like you did in Argentina with IMF funds. So basically all of the “imperialism” you claim is China trying to recover its historical territories lost in the process of the proletarian revolution.
Meanwhile, I don’t see any of the likes of you denouncing the plethora of colonies Europe and the US has been having and continue having for centuries. Why are you no so openly in favour of a Hawai’ian independence movement but you are so fervently obsessed with China? I know why, because you have fascists freudian slips and you can’t even realise about it yourself, since you live surrounded by people who justify themselves, and you have never interacted with a person from the Global South that’s not a fascist. By the way, the things I’m telling you, this is not “tankie” stuff, I have Peronists friends, Trotskyists friends, and all over the spectrum in Argentina, and they all know what you people say is complete and utter disgusting, the thought that everyone agrees with this kind of thought is something only maintained in first world imperialist countries. Don’t fool yourself.
User 2: I'm not talking with someone who defends genocide
User 3: Yeah, don’t bother. Tankies are red fascists.
User 2: Yup, tankies are fascists under a new name.
robinn 1y ago • 100%
Zenz is definitely homophobic and racist but do you have a source for holocaust denial?
robinn 1y ago • 100%
Okay found out what Lemmy is and I hate it. Like wtf is this.
Hey, tankies, decent countries don’t have to violently suppress their populations and then lie about it. Oh, and socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, not whatever the fuck they’re doing in China. (inb4 people assuming I must support the US since I hate China)
The socialism understander has logged on. Wouldn't even know what to reply to this since it's literally nothing.
robinn 1y ago • 0%
No clue what Lemmy is but I'll try to get what you're asking for.
I made a carrd on the Uyghur genocide available [here]. It has the U.S. Army colonel clip you talked ab.
For Tiananmen Square, [this] is a Hong Kong news report of the evacuation. You have the CIA cable, that's a good source. Here's a general article.
- China in 1989 for one man vs. the U.S. in 2020 for a whole crowd (good propaganda video, this is all that a mention of the 6/4 incident as an indictment against China seriously warrants)
- Thread covering testimony from protest leaders
- Thread covering images of PLA troop immolation
- a NYT questioning of the atrocity account
- There Was No "Tiananmen Square Massacre" - CBS News
*The CBS testimony says that the CPC denies the casualties in outer areas. This is incorrect, the mayor of Beijing had stated in a public report that around 200 people died including PLA soldiers.
“According to the information we have so far gathered, more than 3,000 civilians were wounded and over 200, including 36 college students, died during the riot.” (p. 47).
Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. New Star Publishers, 1989.
Mentions in State-Owned Media In China [refuting the "censor" narrative; all accessed through Baidu]:
China.org.cn: China Rejects US Statement on 6-4 Incident
China Daily: Tiananmen Massacre a Myth
China Daily: What's Wrong With Our Liberal Studies Courses?
CPC News: Centennial Events of the Communist Party of China
People's Daily: Memorabilia of the Communist Party of China 1989
Publications the year of the event (first is relatively easy to find, second isn't):
Xitong, Chen. Report on Checking the Turmoil and Quelling the Counter-Revolutionary Rebellion. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.
The Beijing Riot: A Photo Record. Beijing: New Star Publishers, 1989.
robinn 1y ago • 100%
Umm guys the proletariat kinda bankrolls the bourgeoisie so it's really their fault.
robinn 1y ago • 100%
I swear to god if they bring up criminal record or some other bullshit that doesn't pertain to this again I will go to the NYT headquarters and ********************************************************. The murderer didn't know he WAS (he got off the list before the murder jesus christ) on the "poor people who deserve to die" list. The people on the train said Neely never physically harmed or threatened to physically harm anyone, end of story.
"We're not justifying the murder" YES YOU ARE, THE FOCUS SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS
robinn 2y ago • 100%
People watched it and won't admit it.
www.codastory.com
**Part I** Yeah she quotes the CIA and state department ([why would they lie?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK1tfkESPVY)), and doesn't question it at all, which flies in the face of her "journalistic process" nonsense at the end. > "I remember my first, brief meeting with Seymour Hersh in Beirut in 2009. I was based there for the BBC..." Of course! The British government propaganda station only reports fair and true information! Let us now critique his relations to Assad and gloss over this... > "But by the time the Syrian civil war sent shockwaves through the Middle East, Hersh’s relationship with the Assads seemed to affect his journalism. In Syria’s ugly, bloody civil war, he took the dictator’s side, claiming — against all existing evidence — that it was the rebels and not the regime who used sarin gas in chemical attacks. Unlike Hersh’s investigations into America’s chemical warfare in the 1960s, his Syria reporting seemed to be based on his assumption that the U.S. government lies, rather than witnesses or evidence" The U.S. government does lie. Consistently. And where is her skepticism when it came to uncritically quoting the state department earlier (don't worry, she questions Russia's acceptance of the theory)? It has returned, it seems, only to provide no evidence for her point but merely suggest that the evidence exists. > "This is how disinfo 101 works... A piece is published, it triggers a reaction. Media then reports on the reaction, further extending the lifespan of that original piece.” ??? **Part II** Let's see how much "disinfo" we can find in another article on this site: ["Pearls, rhino horns and arsenic: Covid-hit North Koreans advised to turn to traditional medicine"](https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/covid-north-korea/) > "... guards were issued shoot-to-kill orders along the hermit country’s border with China, while state media warned people that everything from snow, to birds, to trash in the ocean could carry COVID. Citizens were ordered inside on numerous occasions, supposedly to shelter from 'dust storms from China' that the government feared could carry the virus." Shoot to kill orders? This is shocking... surely the link will follow to some authoritative source on the matter (it's another one of her articles). And in this article, she just claims the same thing without any citation. Is this not how disinformation actually works? There's no link to state media on the warning of snow carrying COVID, but there is a link for their claim that state media suggested people stay inside because of dust storms. This links to a BBC article which states: > "Yellow dust refers to sand from Mongolian and Chinese deserts that blows into North and South Korea at certain times of the year. It is intermingled with toxic dust that for years has raised health concerns in both countries." So they have legitimate concerns. > "North Korea’s main state-run outlet, Rodong Sinmun, has published official treatment advice for the virus. It advises people to take antibiotics, which are not effective in fighting the virus, as they treat bacterial infections. The newspaper also recommended dairy products and folk remedies like honeysuckle flowers and willow tree leaves. It also called for a medicine called angunguhwanghwan, a traditional North Korean concoction that contains pearls, rhino horn and gold leaf, as well as dangerous levels of mercury, lead and arsenic" Again, quite shocking. No link is given to Rodong Sinmun but instead to NK News. [The article](https://www.nknews.org/2022/05/kim-jong-un-says-north-korea-faces-turmoil-after-fever-claims-21-more-lives/) contains no citations for its quotes from state media. > "North Korea has a track record of developing scientifically unproven treatments, such as injections made from ginseng which it claimed could cure AIDS. Pushing bogus cures is a family trait in hermetic, isolated states" This claim is cited from an [NPR article](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/06/19/415832033/north-korea-announces-cure-for-mers-as-if). NPR is a U.S. government affiliated news service, but we will see what they have to say: > "The World Health Organization says there's no known cure or vaccine for MERS, but state-run media in Pyongyang reports a wonder drug called Kumdang-2 will do the trick. The report makes no mention of whether Pyongyang is going to offer this miracle compound to its neighbor to the south. Or as the news agency puts it: 'the Korean puppet authorities' in Seoul. Note to readers: The next few paragraphs require us to use the word 'allegedly' more than a few times" That note is included in the original article (go check). Why? Because they don't actually have any direct examples of state media suggesting this. (Note: there is no link for the "Pyongyang state-run media report" in the paragraph). They will say this is because it is difficult to access information on the DPRK, except both Rodong Sinmun and KCNA are [publicly accessible](http://dprkportal.kp/) in multiple languages online. Some articles aren't automatically translated into English, but this doesn't require an anonymous source to work around. > "While the government has announced that the military will be used to deliver supplies to people in the most need, Dr. Lim tells me the allocation of these scarce resources will likely be based on loyalty to the party — meaning that many North Koreans are likely to resort to alternative treatments" No need to cite the government announcement, journalism is hard. **Part III** Now I found another report of Natalia's (author of the first article) that made me really unwell. It's titled: "A boom in 3D-printed guns, North Korean cat hunters and China versus Pfizer" [seen here](https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/infodemic-january-22/). The issue I'll be discussing is the middle item "North Korean cat hunters." Natalie writes: > "North Koreans along the country’s border have been ordered to kill stray cats, because they could 'bring the virus from China'" This is deeply disturbing. The order is cited from Daily NK (which is funded by the NED, which itself is funded annually by congress). The article cites an anonymous source for the claim. It seems Natalia is by far a more experienced purveyor of misinformation than anyone else. Far more reliant on trusting government sources at their word, far more interested in fabricating details to suit her agenda, etc.
robinn 2y ago • 100%
I agree that it would obviously be preferable to use prestigious sources with good web design and well-known authors. Unfortunately my resources are limited. Feel free to suggest another article and I'll consider adding it (perhaps I could make a "mainstream news" section?).
robinn 2y ago • 100%
Grayzone is definitely very iffy but these specific posts are good. I verified each of the blog posts as well. The issue isn't "trust", if I cited a blog as saying something and they didn't prove their point then it would be a bad citation. The only time I cited blog posts was for analysis of establishment news, and critique them if you like but don't just go "they're not valid news sources", because that isn't the issue and nothing is claimed as a revelation or without proof. If the issue is with sharing this to other people, then you should first establish what the difference is between news and analysis.
Note: That AP article is far too entrenched in propaganda to be shared as a source. You'd have much more trouble with optics in that case.
Xinjiang and Human Rights - [The Xinjiang Atrocity Propaganda Blitz](https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/) [Xinjiang: A Report and Resource Compilation](https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang) [Thread on Xinjiang](https://web.archive.org/web/20220902034955/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1287411708374454273.html) [Breaking down the BBC’s visit to Hotan, Xinjiang](https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab) *Post actually going over a BBC report from within one of these centers* [The Case of the Keriya Aitika Mosque](https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/the-case-of-the-keriya-aitika-mosque-efa29e456339) [Thread on the UN Xinjiang Report](https://web.archive.org/web/20221212203614/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565159339177873408.html) [Xinjiang Police Files (XPF) Debunk](https://mango-press.com/the-xinjiang-police-files-are-actually-boring-zenzs-reality-warping/) Note: *The quote from the NYT Article: “absolutely no mercy” was from a 2014 speech on the terror attacks, specifically was referring to the perpetrators of the terror attacks, and did not scapegoat Uyghurs to any extent (what a wonder a three word quote could be taken out of context!) in addition, the phrase “organs of dictatorship” from that speech refers to the proletarian class dictatorship* [Diplomatic Visit to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations (2022)](https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202208/07/WS62ef831ea310fd2b29e70bc1.html) [Diplomatic Visit to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations (2023)](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202301/1283507.shtml) **Estimations of 1 million detainees (and onwards):** > 1. 2018 UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination report authored by the NGO (Network of) Chinese Human Rights Defenders [[which has received NED funding](https://www.ned.org/wp-content/themes/ned/search/grant-search.php)] [The report (which concludes 1.3-2 million detainees) was based on interviews with only 8 Uyghur individuals, then extrapolated to form percent estimates on the population of detainees in the XUAR](https://www.nchrd.org/2018/08/china-massive-numbers-of-uyghurs-other-ethnic-minorities-forced-into-re-education-programs/) * [2015 IRS filing forms](https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF_Images/2015/260/523/2015-260523708-0cd17926-9.pdf) show that $819,553 (out of $820,023) of the organization’s funds came from government grants * [2016 IRS filing forms](https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF_Images/2016/260/523/2016-260523708-0e4e77e4-9.pdf): $859,091 (out of $1,284,893) * [2017 IRS filing forms](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/260523708/09_2018_prefixes_25-26%2F260523708_201712_990_2018091415691621): $497,684 (out of $898,256) * [2019 IRS filing forms](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/260523708/08_2020_prefixes_23-26%2F260523708_201912_990_2020081317234985): $757,884 (out of $760, 803) [Uyghur 'unrest' was a CIA narrative planned to destabilize China, top US army Chief admits. 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Cvx0R8iDo) > 2. [Adrian Zenz, member of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation](https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/) [Adrian Zenz’s deliberate fabrications regarding sterilization statistics [“new IUD”]](https://web.archive.org/web/20230313172259/https://twitter.com/abovetheclouds/status/1404918115423633414) [[On “net IUD” (~80% as misleading figure)]](https://web.archive.org/web/20230313175144/https://twitter.com/abovetheclouds/status/1373319168842469377) **CGTN Documentaries: (the first one is better)** [Fighting terrorism in Xinjiang](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-12-05/Fighting-terrorism-in-Xinjiang-MaNLLDtnfq/index.html) [The black hand — ETIM and terrorism in Xinjiang](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-12-07/The-black-hand-ETIM-and-terrorism-in-Xinjiang-MepKpOPAKA/index.html) **White Papers:** [The Fight Against Terrorism and Extremism and Human Rights Protection in Xinjiang](https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/196/188/95/1552893904882.html) [Human Rights in Xinjiang - Development and Progress](http://english.www.gov.cn/archive/white_paper/2017/06/01/content_281475673512156.htm) [Cultural Protection and Development in Xinjiang](http://english.www.gov.cn/archive/white_paper/2018/11/15/content_281476391524846.htm) [Vocational Education and Training in Xinjiang](https://govt.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201908/17/WS5d5a0cb2498ebcb190578895.html) **Western Establishment News Reports:** The Independent: [More than 35 countries defend China over mass detention of Uighur Muslims in UN letter](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-mass-detentions-uighur-muslims-un-letter-human-rights-a9003281.html) Reuters: [Diplomatic Visits to Xinjiang by Representatives of Islamic Nations](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang/wary-of-xinjiang-backlash-china-invites-waves-of-diplomats-to-visit-idUSKCN1QA0XX) Associated Press: [Terror & Tourism: Xinjiang eases its grip, but fear remains](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9) (provided by [@stinky](/u/stinky)) Foreign Policy: [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
robinn 2y ago • 100%
you're not funny answer my damn question